Tales of Television Centre (BBC4, Thursday 17 May, 2012)
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53 comments
As discussed here and here.
As discussed here and here.
Be warned this is a very large file, currently uploading to you Tube, and will not be processed for about 12 hours, so it tells me!
So it'll be well into tomorrow before it's viewable, i'm afraid.
Pan's People and Kenny Everett
Do the BBC have Dawn, Three Dog Night, Disco Tex, First Choice, Elton John and The Jackson Five dances (Three Dog Night not a PP dance) in full that they showed on this documentary?, and are these orphan clips or do they have the complete editions these come from?;
Kenny Everett - I spotted a very brief clip of him, too.
Any idea which edition the Kenny clip came from? It must be 1973, but I can't place which one.
After 31/3/77 almost not being broadcast, which I thoroughly enjoyed watching, it's nice to see these rare clips, whether incomplete or complete, interested to know which, back at the BBC. :)
I'm intrigued as to where they acquired those clips from, but great to see them, all the same.
A toast to the BBC, not just for the rare clips but the programme itself. A brilliant look back at various programmes and various parts of the London building with some interesting interviews and clips.
The end of the era for television, but an excellent documentary. :)
Claire
TvC YT update
Just checked, and another 10 hours to go (I think it was a 4GB file)!
So it should be ready about 20:00 BST, unless it finishes with the ever dreaded 'this file is too big to upload' message, that you always get told at the end, never the beginning.
Or the upload program that
Or the upload program that your using stops working near to completion of the upload, & it has to be closed, & you have to start all over again, that's happened to me before, & I've been left feeling decidedly hacked off!
Justin
2 fresh clips of the girls
2 fresh clips of the girls were seen on this excellent program. One of their April '75 routine to Disco Tex's 'Dance with choo' and the original six from maybe around 1970 with the music of Three Dog Night's 'Mama told me not to come'. Hopefully these are from full routines available.
Wow it's up and working!
Wow it's up and working!
See YT has managed to
See YT has managed to compress it to a more manageable size - to 535 MB from 3 GB.
Thank you so much panfan for
Thank you so much panfan for uploading this doc ,i cant tell you how thrilled i was at seeing tie a yellow ribbon ,the love you save ,i wanna dance wit choo and a routine ive waited 39 years to see again ,and when i realised this routine was wiped a few years ago ,i never thought id see it again ,and that was smarty pants ,i know it was only a very brief snippet of the routines that we got to see ,but it has give me hope that these routines are out there somewhere ,and not gone for good up to that dancehall that was just in my memory of the song
i know ruth was always known
i know ruth was always known as the nervous one ,and i must admitt it never showed on her performances at all ,but if you look at the clip of the girls lined up ready to dance to ghetto child ,ruth does look a little nervous before the performance ,i wonder if the clip of weve only just begun was from the rehearsels because ive not seen that clip of babs scratching her head with frustration at going wrong on the routine before
When I get a chance, I'll
When I get a chance, I'll create a compilation of the PP/TOTP bits for easier reference.
Wow! Panfan.Thankyou for
Wow! Panfan.Thankyou for uploading the whole show.That was a major task.Nonetheless we probably only really want the sections featuring Pan's People but extracting them is a formidable,time-consuming task in itself!!.They are scattered all over the place,some are just a few seconds here,& there.Probably better to have the whole programme.Viewers can always scroll forward.
I enjoyed this programme;it was excellent retro-nostalgia.I thought Babs ,Dee Dee & Ruth were funny & entertaining together with some amusing anecdotes.
Not as major as trying to
Not as major as trying to edit out the PP bits! Will try to at some stage - a bit fiddly that sort or thing. Taking out a self contained 5 minute segment is one thing, but although "easy", it's just more time consuming to do a compilation.
Still haven'y had a chance to review what I missed, but when I finally watch it, I'll compile the PP segments into an easy digest.
But I thought the programme looked so great it was really worth having available, not least so expats like Rusty and pastpanfan could view it.
Great Stuff
Thanks PanFan I really enjoyed the programme and felt that Pans People were featured in a totally positive light and interesting clips with some new as has been stated. I found the whole film interesting and it seemed to acknowledge the large part played by this Dance Troupe in BBC TV history. The follow-up featuring Ruby Flipper and Legs & Co is naturally coming later I assume. Overall though I say well done to the makers of this celebration.
Rusty
The PP segments from Tales From TV Centre
Here are the PP segments from 'Tales from TV Centre'. The disjointed voiceovers were distracting so I've added a new audio. God, it would be good to have a free run at the BBC's archives. These miniscule length clips just aren't enough …
http://depositfiles.com/files/mfxfc8pax
Welcome to the site,
Welcome to the site, pooksahib, and many thanks for that. Saved me a lot of effort! I'll see about incorporating this into the site later. Who is in your avatar, by the way?
I think that would be a young
I think that would be a young Madeline Smith, actress.
Avatar
Spot on pp4ever. Madeline was my first crush and never bettered. Not even by Louise Clarke.
Panfan - your posts suggest that editing 'Tales...' would be a big hassle for you. I use Video ReDo TV Suite - simplicity itself. Changing the audio required mkvtoolnix - again, simple.
Thanks for the tips! I'm ok
Thanks for the tips! I'm ok with still images, but very much a newbie when it comes to video and audio!
Doh!
Prior to deleting 'Tales of TV Centre' from my PVR, I skimmed through it to check I hadn't missed a bit. Guess what? I missed a bit...
So here it is again with the missing bit added.
http://depositfiles.com/files/gu9kqo7mt
Neither of those links you
Neither of those links you posted work for me, but can I just say welcome to pp.com, you'll enjoy yourself here!
Justin
Yes I can't get them to work
Yes I can't get them to work either - not sure what the problem is?
Links
I clicked on the links,and was confronted by two clocks,and a big red banner on the top from McAfee security warning me about the site.
Glenn
It might be best to avoid it:
It might be best to avoid it:
http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/static.depositfiles.com
Maybe try another file sharing site, pooksahib?
Glenn's Clocks
The clocks were spelt with one omission on the banner I got
Rusty
different file hoster
Well now, that's most odd. I tested the links prior to posting and I tested them just now – working fine. Depositfiles.com is trustworthy so it's OK to override any warnings generated by your browser. Let's see how you get on with this link though:
http://ul.to/w3lfpzmd
It's hard to find a good file hoster ever since Megaupload got busted by the FBI. Many sites no longer allow anyone but the original uploader to download a file (which kind of defeats the purpose). Rapidshare still works but their download speed is ridiculously slow. Mine is just a small file, though, so I'll use Rapidshare should Uploading.to fail you.
Thanks for the welcome, Paperboyplod. Yes, this appears to be a good site for a PP/L&C fan. Does it have a big enough membership to send a credible petition asking the BBC to show earlier TOTP episodes I wonder?
Thanks pooksahib (you'll need
Thanks pooksahib (you'll need to give us a heads up on the name too!). Maybe my security settings stopped the site working, who knows. I do know sometimes McAfee will flag a site because it happened to host a dodgy file uploaded...
Anyway I'll have a look when on computer later in day.
Certainly sites like this can help galvanise pressure on the Beeb. We were discussing this in another thread which I forget at the moment before we went offline for a couple of days. And there are also sites like Popscene and various popular TV discussion forums where word can be spread.
It's a real shame they didn't start with the 1960s, so they could have had a chronological run. I wonder when the current run will stop? If they continue on through the 80s(and maybe beyond?!) then we might have a long wait unless they run them in parallel or start up their paid archive access online service that's been mooted in the past. Considering there's not a lot of pre 76 episodes, it'sashame they've been skipped over.
I'll have a look for contact details for this when I have a chance, unless someone can look for me in the meantime. Then it would be worth writing individually? Possibly writing as individuals has more effect that making it appear as though it's an organised campaign which some find easier to ignore. Thoughts welcome!
Return to TV Centre PP clips
Here's pooksahib's clip compilation:
Embedding / username
Nice. How did you manage to get it on Youtube? Last time I tried to upload an MKV I failed miserably.
You were asking about my name - it's a book title by a favourite author of mine.
I'd never heard of an MKV
I'd never heard of an MKV file, so a new one for me! But I just uploaded it the normal way and it worked fine!
Here's an article about how to embed videos (the first bit deals with creating a new post as opposed to replying to an existing one, but the rest works the same way).
I'll have to have a look at
I'll have to have a look at those editing programmes you mentioned, pooksahib. Are they freeware or paid programmes?
video editors
Hi. You won't have much need of MKVtoolnix (which is free btw). The other one - Video ReDo TV Suite - is the one that brilliantly edits the kind of files your PVR makes. It isn't free but there are 'warez' versions available. PM me if you don't know what I mean. For excellent help on the subject of video editing go here:
http://forum.videohelp.com/forum.php
Thankyou Pooksahib for this
Thankyou Pooksahib for this compilation,& Panfan for uploading it.Very artistic video!.Nice bit of 'The Shadows' to accompany it too.Clearly some 'new' seconds of footage not seen since the '70s.
video quality
Thanks, Flight14, glad you like it. I'm not sure that uploading videos to Youtube is the best way to share them. The video I made was 45Mb and in MKV format. Get it from Youtube and not only has the format changed but the file size is much smaller. Which means there must be some loss of quality.
Youtube is fine for what it is but in a forum like this I think it best that 'new' videos be shared among members in their original state and that means using a file hosting site.
Yes, YT does compress. My
Yes, YT does compress. My original idea is to host video files for download here, which I have a large back log for. This isn't too bad when it comes to existing YT clips, but the the newly recorded 1977 programmes, each routine clip is 2-3 GB, and I don't think it's practical to host such file sizes, and some sort of compression is inevitable.
But I'm open to advice of course from people like you with more experience on this!
I've been meaning to sort out a decent file sharing site that's straightforward and trustworthy and doesn't use gimmicks to try to make you pay!
Clip size
2-3 Gb for one routine? Good grief, you've got to tell me what hardware and software you're using! I record on a Humax satellite box, copy the file to PC, edit it with VideoReDo and the resulting clip of a single routine is 95Mb AND the same quality as was broadcast.
On another matter, I'm mightily peeved to see that the current run of TOTP2 hasn't had any PP/LC on it. Didn't they used to?
They certainly did, there are
They certainly did, there are some TOTP2 clips on YMG's blog of routines that have been taken from episodes of TOTP2. But you're right nothing from this current series thus far.
There's a special Bee Gee's edition coming up soon with ample opportunities to have at least one track being enhanced by a dance troupe as there were several that were danced to by the likes of Legs & Co.
Yesterday's TOTP2 had Terry Wogan doing The Floral dance, so if the BBC can show that, then I'm sure that nobody will complain about Pan's People or another troupe doing a proper dance!
Justin
Clip size the second
I am also using a digital satellite receiver with recording option via USB, and the clips I make have the same size as yours, roughly 30-35 mb per minute. I suspect panfan has a hard disk recorder which doesn't record the actual satellite stream.
I second your comments about quality. That's why I don't care much for youtube. I only use it as a reference source.
Where is this YMG blog of
Where is this YMG blog of which you speak?
Yeah, can't believe they threw in Wogan with so many other gems available. I enjoyed Kate Bush (major fan) and Black Sabbath (ditto) but the twat of an editor cut the big final chord from Never Say Die...
YMG's blog!
This the world famous video blog by Young Mister Grace (YMG), from OftDs, here's clip of Say When from an episode of TOTP2, taken from Dave:-
http://legsandco.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/legs-co-say-when.html
A whole list of routines both from TOTPs & elesewhere can be found here:-
http://one-for-the-dads.979225.n3.nabble.com/CLICKABLE-Legs-amp-Co-Pans-amp-other-dance-troupes-routines-thats-on-the-blog-td3623117.html
Justin
File size
Pooksahib wrote:
2-3 Gb for one routine? Good grief, you've got to tell me what hardware and software you're using!
Sorry guys, I got it all completely wrong - the hardware I was using when I wrote earlier was in fact a very tired brain that hadn't been rested much the night before!! I can imagine if it was 1GB / min I'd have to remortgage the house for hard drives, lol! I've no idea why I wrote that earlier...
I haven't worked out my MB / min average, but I think an hour's show is about 1.2 GB, and a routine is about 200-300 MB, so that does seem to tie in with what Scrooge said of about 20-30 MB / min.
I don't have a satellite receiver, and just have the aerial plugged into my laptop and use a software programme to record the signal to my hard drive.
It is certainly a possibility (and a goal) to upload broadcast quality routine excerpts here. The main consideration is space, though, and maybe the costs of extra space would mean external hosting might be the best option, if they happily will host hundreds of files, that are hundreds of MB in size.
A typical You Tube routine is about 40-80 MB in size, and I can probably host these here without an issue, but obviously that's a quality compromise.
I wonder how much demand there is for broadcast quality downloads - are most here recording the 1977 here at least anyway?
I feel a poll coming on maybe...
If Sky+ is anything to go by,
If Sky+ is anything to go by, a typical 40-minute recording of a standard definition TV channel will take up about 500MB, equivelant to one recording of a full 1977 episode of TOTPs without anything edited out.
This is obviously too big for economical long-term storage, so I guess that broadcast quality may well be compramised by the necessity to compress the file.
Top Of The Pops:-The True Story, currently available on Youtube, is a 259MB downloadable file in 360p resolution, & 136MB, in the lower 240p resolution.
You really need to balence file size, with accepable picture quality, the files too big, it'll take longer to upload, but should have better PQ, OTOH if it's much smaller, uploading will be quicker but the PQ & audio for that matter won't be as good.
If you're just uploading one Legs & Co. dance routine from a single episode of TOTPs, then you may as well go for the best PQ, as the flle size for just a 3-minute video clip will naturally be much smaller!
Justin
TOTP size
A full TOTP as repeated on BBC4 with 40 mins takes up app. 1.3 GB space when the satellite stream is recorded directly. This is not too big for me to store. I have several external disks with 1 and 2 TB space. With app. 50 shows a year you get 65 GB, so a 1 TB HD has enough space for more than 10 years TOTP. I strongly object any compression for my own collection, it's either the real deal or nothing.
This is of course my personal view, but with big HD's cheaply available, it shouldn't be a matter of space shortage.
I used to collect compressed mpg-files years ago but meanwhile I deleted all of them, simply because I don't watch them anymore - they're just too bad quality.
The one thing I am trying to
The one thing I am trying to sort out is the best file format for doing the routine edits - Roxio offers all sorts from MPEG2 which I presume is top quality, MP4, MPG...
Is one better to use than the other? I just did some edits from last week's TOTP 1977 of Pauline's Rose Royce routine: it's 2 min 44 sec and comes out as 26.5 as an MP4, but 165 MB for an MPEG2!
This and that
Scrooge McDuck, I wonder how your post stamped at 17:00 managed to nip in ahead of two earlier ones...
Justin – thanks for the info on YMG. I'll have a happy trawl through all that.
On the matter of files – panfan, there's a wee error in your calculation still: a routine of 200-300 MB DOESN'T tie in with what Scrooge said of about 20-30 MB/min. A 3min routine would then be 90Mb tops. But I'm delighted to hear you're not in GBs per routine!
As for recordings, I'm probably right in saying most of us now make our own when it comes to newly broadcast material. From a main channel such as BBC, a 3min song will be 90-100Mb. Less if taken from a cheaper channel such as VintageTV. Scrooge perhaps goes too far when he says “real deal or nothing” (he wouldn't delete the never before seen clip where Bab's bikini falls off just because it's bitrate is 500kbps!) But otherwise he's right – if you're saving TV material for posterity, you save it at max quality.
There are forums aplenty where videos are (illegally, of course) shared by means of 'hosting' sites such as Rapidshare. As far as I know, you can upload as much as you want for free. Downsides: files deleted if they remain undownloaded for some time. Closure of site for copyright breach e.g. Megaupload.
Possible solution for this site: continue as is but if a real nugget comes along, make it available in original quality.
Panfan – first off, get yourself a dish! As for file format, it's best to tamper as little as possible with what comes down your coaxial cable. The likes of Scrooge and myself will always leave it as an mpeg but conversion isn't always bad. Make the same clip in different formats then watch them.
Thanks pooksahib
Thanks pooksahib
What I record is saved as a TS file (transport stream), but the only thing I have to edit with is Roxio Creator, and I have to choose an output and am forced to choose between MP4, MPEG etc
I did a rough calculation that we could just about manage all the troupes extant videos on the site ( average of 50 MB per file), but if we want broadcast quality, we'd need to upgrade somewhat. I'll see how it goes.
Certainly if anyone wants a particular file as a high quality MPEG2, let me know and I can upload it.
By the way, when replying, where your answer appears depends on where you write it. If you type in the box at the end, it will appear at the end - if you click "reply" under a post further up, your reply will be indented under that.
Thanks for explaining the
Thanks for explaining the 'reply' mechanism. My satellite PVR delivers TS files too. Effectively the same as mpg though. It's very technical and I'm not an expert...
TS files
If your recording is saved as a TS file, chances are that this is the original quality satellite stream. So what you need is a decent video editor that gives you the option to reencode just the beginning and the end of each edited video, and leave the rest as it is. I am using Nero Vision 10 for that purpose, it is capable of "smart encoding", which usually leaves about 95 % of the clip in its original video quality. I'm sure other members will have other suggestions.
Re-encoding
The beginning and end - never heard of that before and don't quite understand. You'd have a file of two different types??
As I said before, VideoReDo does it for me.
Key frames
When you edit a clip out of a longer recording and you want to edit at a certain position, you cannot leave the quality completely untouched, unless you cut it at the position of a so-called "key frame". While a PAL signal consists of 25 frames per second, key frames only appear app. once a second, depending on the broadcaster. If you cut at a normal frame, the video editing programme has to do some re-encoding. The same applies to an edit at the end of a clip - only cutting at a key frame can prevent the end of the clip from being re-encoded.
So what most programmes do is re-encode the beginning, let's say 2 or 3 seconds, and then from the next key frame onwards the quality will be left untouched. Usually you won't notice that a very short segment has been re-encoded. It's not a file of two different types of course.
This is getting a bit technical I fear.
.
Videos....
Thanks Scrooge - it's good to have some video gurus about. As far as I know the TS files I record are broadcast quality.
If I select a dance sequence and export as an MPEG2, is that not just the original quality, or does exporting as an MPEG2 involve some sort of compression?
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